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Re: orion-list Dierk's Pacifism of Essenes
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----- Original Message -----
From: George Brooks <george.x.brooks@Juno.Com>
To: <orion@mscc.huji.ac.il>
Cc: <orion@mscc.huji.ac.il>
Sent: Friday, December 24, 1999 2:50 PM
Subject: orion-list Dierk's Pacifism of Essenes
> Comments as follows.......
>
> Dierk says:
> > You think on Khirbet Qumran as a camp described in the [War] scroll...?
> > Well, the connection is utmost seductive but completely wrong:
> > A War Scroll camp is either a temporary fortified field-camp or the
> > army in battle formation. Fortresses or outposts are aside the authors
>
> > interests;
>
> Brooks: My point about the term camps does not come from the War
> Scroll... it comes from the use of the term in the **rule** scrolls where
> the term CAMP(S) refers to **existing** communities of DSS members.
> I think this just highlights the nature of the Essenes as being derived
> from a militaristic orientation.
You mean 0CD's camps acc. to the serek (a military term) of the country
(VII,6-9) - the Rule of Marriage?
> The War Scroll does not have to be a good military
> treatise for my assumptions to function. Perhaps logistics is less
> of an issue when you have Angels on your side?
I don't think that stage-angels are responsible for the supplies of the
army.
Ok - the War Scroll is merely a political tractate for the political
commissar (sounds Vietcong).
>And while Josephus
> and Hippolytus insist that **some** Essenes did not marry, it is my
> contention that even the the non-marrying Essenes (except for perhaps
> the very highest Essene officials?), either lived with "sisters" in their
> household (to manage the household), or lived in camps where Essene-
> related females lived in their own "separated" tents.
That refers IMO to the elite of early Essenes/Jamesians/Christians with
life-long nazirite oath (early Hippies).
And I recall among others the stories of the water-bearer (Mk 14:13), a
woman's job, the six water jugs a` 600 liter for ritual bathing in: the
marriage of Kana (Joh 2:6) and Simon the leper (Mk 14:3; Mt 26:6) - a faux
pas of Jesus the Jew acc. to Lev 13:45-14:32 - in Hebrew Shi'mon ha-Zarua
(the leper), high probably a mistaken ha-Zanua (the humble) and in so far a
known term of the DSS and a designation for Essenes in the Talmud (bKidd.
71a; bBQ69a; bNidd 12a).
N.B. All "modern" Essenes are called Simon in the sources (Bell. Jud.
II,113; cf. II,8.3-6; Toss. Kelim I,6; see the add on in Slavonic Bell. Jud.
between II,110 and 111)...
> Brooks: Which side of this argument do you want? Either you
> DO believe women lived in the Essene camps, or you don't.
> Which is it?
That depends on the interpretation of the term "Essenes" and its
questionable continuity and where we locate them on the timeline.
: > > > 2] which allowed living with women as "married Essenes" for those
> > > Essenes who fit that category
> >
> > Josephus theory of relativity...
>
> Brooks: Great! I found someone who thinks Josephus is incorrect
> about something. In contrast, I think Hippolytus is right on target, and
> he says it too.
Josephus was Hippo's source (see Stegemann and others)...
Greetings from Europe under the Xmas-tree
Dierk
For private reply, e-mail to "Dierk van den Berg" <haGalil@gmx.net>
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