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Re: orion-list 1QM Col. ix.3-5; Origins of different workinghypotheses .
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Gesendet: Sonntag, 1. August 1999 07:43
Betreff: Re: orion-list 1QM Col. ix.3-5; Origins of different
> Dierk van der Berg points out a difficult passage, 1QM ix.3-5 [where]
> the seventh lot of battle is about to begin, i.e. the clash of the main
In column ix we aren't already in the seventh lot of war as Russell assumes,
we're - if ever - in the first lot, for we see nothing but the merely
theoretical development of a first charge against the enemy by 'the
avandgarde', the first (and best) of seven chiliarchies of one of the four
corps of the camp, e.g. the North-Corps. What the redactor had done is true
simple but effective enough to lure the intelligent 'modern man' into a nice
trap: he simply had changed the four corps of seven chiliarchies into seven
Hellenistic strategiai or Roman legions of 4,000 foot each in the hope of
the famous Cato-effect, i.e., man shall forget the text preceded it to start
thinking backward merely following the last phrase.
I'll try to show the problem by reading forward.
(Martinez translation; corrections in < >, improvements in square and
additions in round brackets mine)
Col. v. ... [ blank ] (3) Rule of the formation of fighting [detachments]
(i.e., only a part of the army; see below).
When their [troop] is complete to fill a [battle] line, [then] the [battle]
line will be formed of one thousand men, [and] seven [battle (4) lines] has
the [battle formation] (i.e., the corps of 7,000 foot), each [line]
formation in its order, [one] behind the other (i.e., seven echelons). And
all shall be armed with bronze shields (i.e., chrysaspides in Roman fashion
bearing a 'scutata') polished like (5) a mirror. ... (16) And at [the debut
of the priests, the Levites and all the men of the order (?)] they shall
line up in seven battle lines (of the corps above), one battle line behind
the other (i.e., Scipio at Zama!). (17) [A gap shall be between one battle
line and the other of] thirty cubits, [where] the me[n of the (heavy) order
cavalry (18) shall stand.].[a break!] Col. vi (1) seven times and they
(presumably the slingers) shall return to their position. After them, three
[detachments of 'lights'] shall go out and shall take position between the
(front-)lines. ... (8) And seven cavalry formations shall take up position
[ ] on the right and on the left of the [battle] <formation> ... (9) ... Two
hundred (of the wing) cavalry shall go out with the thousand [of the battle
line (Maier +: of the intermediate troops)]. And thus (10) shall they take
up position on all the (four) flanks of the camp (i.e., four corps plus the
relating cavalry! The sum up of the overall strength follows.). ... Col. vii
... (9) When they draw up the battle lines (of 1,000 foot each; see above)
against the enemy, one line opposite to [each other] (i.e., the width of the
front line depends on the enemy's formation), out of the central gate (i.e.,
a 'gap' short before the charge) towards [ ] between [the front] lines shall
go seven (10) priests ... (and) (14) ... seven levites ... with them, with
seven ram's horns in their hand. ... (15) ... The priests will blow the two
trumpets of rallyin[g and memory(?) and one shall open the gates of bat]tle
upon fifty shields, (16) and [a Fifty (of 'Lights'?)] shall go out of a gate
[and a Fifty out of the second gate and with them the][levitic men of
order]. And with each (17) [battle] line they shall go out in accordance
with this ru[le. The priests shall blow the rallying trumpets and two
detachments of infan]trymen (?) [shall go out] of the gates (18) [and they
take up po]sition between the [two front li]nes. [In their hand are sling
and shield ...] Col. viii ... (3) And the priests shall blow the rallying
trumpets and there shall go out (4) three detachments of infantry (i.e.,
weaker then three battle lines; see above) from the gates and they shall
take up position between the [front] lines; at their side [are] cavalrymen,
(5) [on the] right and [on the] left ... (it follows the already known
'rutitutituuut' of the trumpets and the close fitting sevenfold throw of the
javelins and - we now enter Russel's last post!)
[the sl]ain Col. ix (1) will begin to strike the fallen with their hands.
If you now believe that the strength of the units involved is known since
the beginning of the passage, you'll experience a surprise...
As I've said above: Greetings from Cato...
> Dierk van der Berg concludes as follows:
> > The similarities between the earlier stages of redaction and the
> > Seleucid organization during Lysias' march to Beith Zacharia are utmost
> > remarkable; see Bar-Kochva_The Seleucid Army_pp.174ff.
> It would be interesting to read the specific parallels you perceive.
I perceive the eight utmost flexible and self-contained 'elephant-divisions'
numbering 1,000 infantry and 500 (or more realistic: 250) cavalry forming
'mini phalanxes', of which one, the avandgarde, was as styled as Romans
bearing 'shiny' metal shields; see 1 Macc 6.35 et passim, Jos Ant 12.371f.
in Bar_Kochva_ibid._pp. 180-182.
> that Lysias' army of summer 163 BCE was a mixture of Hellenistic and Roman
> armed-and-trained troops.
Only Lysias' avandgarde (the first chiliarchia in front of the corps) was
styled in Roman fashion, for the terrain was rough; see Bar-Kochva_
> One could argue for the following parallels
> between his army and that of 1QM.
> (1) Elephants with "towers" cf. the "tower" formation of 1QM ix.10-16
> certainly coincidence in terminology).
Oh-no! Don't even think about Elephant warfare. The "tower" formation of 1QM
simply opens the possibility for the use of light torsion catapults in the
field battle like Alexander tried out earlier or - it refers to a Roman
> (2) Polished shields of gold and brass (1 Macc. 6.39 cf. brass shield
> material in 1QM v.4-5).
> (3) It is probable that the Seleucid army included units of cataphracts,
> armored horsemen, as the Seleucids incorporated such units since ca.
> BCE (see Bar-Kochva, _Judas Maccabaeus_ 12-14). 1QM vi.15 has been taken
> some (including Dierk) to refer to cataphracts, although the crucial word
> a lacuna.
The noble cataphracts never were decisive in the army of Antiochus III. and
IV, not because they were expensive, but because their supporters, the
Seleucid horse-archers (normally Dahae), soon run out of arrows. Now what
does the increase of such 'useless' horse-archers in the War Scroll means? I
tell you: the redactor knows the secret of 'eternal' ammunition.
Unfortunately he had not enough Arabian camels at hand... and mules don't
> [ snip ] It is remotely
> conceivable that 1QM retains a few minor features of their opponents'
> Hellenistic warfare - if so, this requires clear proof - but in substance
> clearly reflects the weaponry, structure and tactics of the Roman legions.
Not only retains 1QM spurs of Hellenistic warfare, but the underlying
source and its first redaction are based upon the Jewish art of war:
Hellenistic warfare! Nevertheless, the second redaction clearly refers to
Roman or Auxiliary armament.
However, the tactics are not so easy to determinate...
In the hope of less spelling mistakes than words in the text...
For private reply, e-mail to "Dierk" <haGalil@gmx.net>
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