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Re: orion 4QSon of God,...Christians?

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Tim L Phillips wrote:
> I will quickly say that my post is not about 4QSon of God.
> But I would like to know by what definition are we operating by here in
> referring to those responsible for these texts as "Christian"?
> I have noticed that scholars who admit the inaccuracy of "Christian" or
> Jewish-Christian regarding those "of Qumran" or those more obviously tied to
> Yeshua's sect, still continue to use for conventions' sake. Why? Everything
> else seems to be held to minute scrutiny around here. Let's have a contest to
> give all these sects more accurate names.

	A century ago the terms "Jewish" and "Christian" were used to
define what was believed to be two monololithic systems.  The last
century, however, has seen the rise of HJ research and the discovery
of the DSS.  HJ research has shown us that Jesus/Y'shua was not a
nor were his immediate followers.  The DSS have shown us that there were
various "subsets" of 2nd temple Judaism and we could no longer look
at the history of that time through the prism of Rabbinical Judaism
nor could we view the first decades of the "Jesus People" though the
prism of Hellenistic Christianity.  Our taxonomy has not seemed to
have caught up to the times and the phrase "Jewish-Christian" is
used for comfort despite its being an anachronism and an oxymoron.

	Messianic expectation does not seem to have been an issue
with the majority within 2nd temple Judaism but seems, in my opinion,
to have been an issue within a Daniel/Enochian/Messianic/Apocalyptic
"subset" of Judaism with its origins just prior to...and it's
development during...Hasmonean times.  The DSS People whom we
presently identify with the Essenes and the Jesus People seem to
have arisen, albeit in separate trajectories, from this subset.

	The Yeshuine Jews (as I prefer to call them) and the
DSS people (Essenes? Qumranites?) would therefore have certain
oral and written traditions commonly held dear...traditions
that up until the discovery of the DSS would be considered
to have been "Christian" in origin.  The Testimonies of the 12
Patriarchs, the Enochic literature, and some of the sapiential
works come to mind.  Some of these works, no longer extant
in their Hebrew or Aramaic forms, were preserved by Christians
in Greek, Coptic, Ethiopic..further adding to the opinion that
they were "Christian" in origin, albeit often edited and
interpolated with Christian themes.

	It is no surprise, therefore that 4Q246 has parallels
with various 1st stratum "Christian" themes such as the
"little apocalypse" and strong "Christian-sounding" vorlage
and imagery.

	If the library of the N'tzarim/Yeshuines was found
(wouldn't that stir the pot?) I highly suspect that such
texts as the Aramaic Apocalypse, Aramaic Levi, etc would
also be present.  This does not make the DSS people
Yeshuines..and certainly not "pre-Christians" nor the
Yeshuines Essene.  It would be a reflection of their
common stemma, perhaps, but both divergent with a
relationship perhaps similar to that between the
Episcopalians and the Roman Catholics.  With this in
mind, it is my opinion that we will never find, O'Callahan
aside, "Christian" works in the DSS nor were "Christian"
texts "spirited away" as in fanciful conspiracy stories.

4Q246 Christian?  Nonsense!


Díman dith laych idneh dínishMA nishMA
   Jack Kilmon (jpman@accesscomm.net)