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Re: orion Zealots

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Tom Simms wrote:

> On Wed, 01 Oct 1997 12:57:14 -0500, jpman@accesscomm.net writes:
> >Orionists:
> >    In the continuing debates over who owned the DSS, Essenes,
> Sadducees,
> >Pharisees.....has anyone ever posed that it could have been the
> Zealots?
>    As you know of me, Jack, on another list, I have always viewed
>    Paul's foray to Damascus, since it was out of Pilate's jurisdic-
>    tion, to be chasing "zealots" in the other Damascus, Qumran.

    I must admit that for some time I favored the Damascus/Qumran
metaphorsince it resolved my confusion over Paul's Damascus mission.
Paul could
have no authority to arrest people in Damascus nor could even Pilatus
it to him.  At some point, however, I had to realize that I cannot
DSS texts to resolve my confusion over Christian writings.  There was a
large, perhaps central, Essene presence in Damascus and CD does say:

".....repentent ones of Israel who *left the land of Judah* and dwelt in
land of Damascus."

    The Land of Judah is definitely a coordinate for Land of Damascus
is an obstacle to the metaphor paradigm for me.

    I have a tendenz to see associations between the "Jesus people"
(not Christians) and the "DSS people."  The "Damascus metaphor" was
handy for this tendentiousness on my part.  Having said this, if we
recognize our "wishful thinking" tendencies (so common in DSS studies)
and challenge them, we'll never get anywhere with the DSS except where
*want* to go.  I realize that even Frank Cross likes the metaphor and
de Vaux even gave it serious thought but at this point, I need something

more substantive to see the "Damascus/Qumran" metaphor and Paul will
have to remain...as the King of Siam said..."a puzzlement."

> >I seem to recall a reference, and I don't remember where, that the
> caves
> >of the Dead Sea area were used by Jewish rebel groups during both the
> >Jewish War and the bar Kochba revolts.  I have not seen anything on
> the
> >archaeological reports of use of the caves after the caching of the
> >scrolls.
> >    The enigmatic Copper Scroll was situated separately from the rest
> >of the material in Cave 3, from my understanding, and its closer
> >similarity to Mishnaic Hebrew makes me wonder if it was not later.
> >    I have also read some opinions that the putative Qumran group may
> >have been part of the Masada group.
>    My above view came from reading about that Masada puzzle, "The
>    Jesus Scroll", seemingly a fraud but enough to make you realize
>    just how radical those early Christians actually were.  And of
>    course, you know my hypothesis of the use of the Nile Puffer Fish
>    to escape an execution, so with many Zealots among the followers of
>    Jesus, the above fraud became at least possible.

    Excuse my ignorance on this matter..but what is the "Jesus Scroll?"

>    It also makes sense when research showed that the Essenes were no
>    nearer than that Gate in Jerusalem yet there were, as I have hear,
>    some evidence of use of Qumran up to its Roman destruction.

    A considerable Essene presence in Jerusalem makes me wonder whatthe
Qumran Community separated themselves from....the Pharisees/Sadducees/
temple cult? or the other Essenes?

>    Christians don't like to look at those possibilities rising from
>    what little evidence is there any more than the later Rabbinic
>    authorities did over what was going on a century or so before.
>    Without the debate on this list, I'd have never dumped my early
>    Eisenman views of the settlement.

    I admit that I learn much from the background material of
Eisenman'sbooks but still wonder where his conclusions come from.

>    May I point out that during the same time, scrolls were found other
>    than at Qumran, expanding your mention of the copper Scroll.  In
>    fact, where was the Temple Scroll found?

    No scrolls, of course, were found at Qumran so I imagine you meantin
the caves in closest proximity.  Cave 3 of the Copper Scroll and cave 11

of the Temple Scroll are the furthest north of Qumran some 2-3 miles.


Díman dith laych idneh dínishMA nishMA
   Jack Kilmon (jpman@accesscomm.net)