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orion Orion Sadducees (MMT) et al, Part 2
(Continued from part 1)
>*IF* the "DSS people" were Essenes, as seems to be the case,
>and *IF* there was a cloistered community of Essenes at Qumran, and (and
>this is the biggest "if") *IF* the DSS corpus originated at Qumran,
This isn't logical. There are so many "ifs" here, all of which are likely
rife with non sequiturs, that the logical statement *of your ifs* is: It's
almost certain that the "Yeshuines" did NOT exist side by side with the "DSS
people"... I don't think it can be stated quite that strongly, another way
of saying that your "ifs" is very illogical. Try putting some probability
figures to your ifs and you'll begin to see what I mean.
>I have seen no evidence that the "Jamesian" community of "Yeshuines" were
not >ultra-Torah observant.
Agreed. It your reasoning in getting here that's flawed.
>To reject the usage of "proto-Christian" momentarily as anachronistic, and
>"Yeshuine Jews, they would have been indistinguishable from those ultra-Torah
>observant "DSS people."
Reject the usage of "proto-Christian" until continuity is logically
demonstrated and we're on the same wave length. You would be correct in
holding that the Netzarim were indistinguishable -- in most respects -- from
the ultra-Torah observant "DSS people". However, the Netzarim leaned more
to the Perushim halakhah than to the Qumran Tsedoqim ma'aseh.
>> In fact, such an ultra-strict sect would be the last candidate.
> Can you give examples of partial rejection of Torah by the Jamesian
The Netzarim ("Jamesian community") have nothing to do with Christianity
beyond *assuming continuity* which, in turn, is the last candidate to be
associated with an ultra-strict sect.
> Not if I am defining "proto-Christian" as the group of Yeshuines
>predating,and later separate from, the Pauline diversion and the
>destruction of 70 CE.
Demonstrate, don't assume. Proto-Christians were diametric opposites of the
> Please keep in mind that I am using the term "proto-Christian" in
>its non-anachronistic sense to define the immediate post-crucifixion followers
>of Yeshua (Nazarenes)
Your use of the term is precisely what doesn't fly. Discussion of possible
interactions and influences between the Netzarim and the Qumran Tsedoqim is
an entirely different matter. Christianity has nothing to do with it and
cannot simply "assume" its way into the discussion.
Paqid 16, Global Congregation of Nazarene Jews
Netzarim Virtual Community Center