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Re: Calendar, MMT & Enoch (Combined)

>>Ian, by saying that the actions of those priests would defile the temple, it
>>makes it impossible for them to take part. For example the differences in how
>>to make the red heifer would mean that this group would consider all those
>>'purified' by the ashes of the red heifer impure. They could not touch them
>>for fear of making other things impure.
>As you don't know how the situation was being handled during the early phase
>of the hellenizing crisis, I can only assume you're talking through your
>hat, ie making assumptions about procedures that you cannot know. Did the
>hellenizers partake in the red heifer? or was that too uncivilized? If so,
>did they do it their own way and boycott the conservatives? Did the
>conservatives allow them to perform such things in the temple? Did the
>hellenizers toe the line for such ceremonies and just make noises or debate
>the issue? We just don't know.

Ian, as Russell pointed out we have already precedent for people avoiding the 
temple when it was in a state of 'impurity'. I really don't see what you are 
trying to say. People who take things like 'impurity' seriously would see 
these things as quite serious, even though we might not see what the 'fuss' is 
all about.

>>>Responding to Moshe Shulman who brings the 'red heifer' laws into the fray:
>>>I see no evidence that the lines "make it clear that they are in
>>>disagreement with " the later Pharisaic position.
>>Simple, MMT makes clear that they have a difference, and that the difference
>>is that according to the author(s) of MMT the person must wait until `RYWBWT
>>H$M$. The Rabbis required the person to go to the mikva by day, and then they
>>could do the service. (In fact they required the person to being impure, and
>>immerse in the Mishnah Parah 3.7). Their opponents (the Sadducees) required
>>specifically that they should wait until `RBY $M$.  This is the exact wording
>>here. It is a clear indication that MMT takes the view of the Sadducees (of
>>the Talmud) and their opponents are taking the view of the Rabbis/Pharasees. 
>Please correct me here: I would have thought sunset was a synonym for
>Numbers' "until evening" 19:7,8,10. I see nothing more than Numbers 19,
>therefore no argument from you.

1. It does not mention there about those performing the acts (only that those 
who had performed the acts become unclean). 2. I do not see what the point of 
your argument is. Let me state it simple: In MMT they argue against someone 
else and say you must do X (i.e. those they aregue agaisnbt say you don't need 
to do X). In the Mishnah the Rabbis say you don't need to do X, but that their 
opponents say that you do need to do X. Whatever X is, it becomes obvious that 
the author(s) of MMT are taking the view of those the Mishnah argues against, 
and the Mishnah is taking the POV of those that MMT is arguing about. What 
names you wish to call any of these groups is irrelevant. The ONLY question is 
if there is a relationship between the groups. The more cases of "X's" the 
likely that the sides in MMT are the same as the sides in the Mishnah. This is 
really basic, and quite simple. This particular case is very strong in that 
the TECHNICAL LANGUAGE used in both places are that similar. That the same 
arguments and positions appear in both MMT and the Mishanh is undeniable.

>At the turn of the first century ce -- say -- when both Sadducees and
>Pharisees were at a stand-off in Jerusalem, did either sect boycott the
>temple? If not, given their conflicts of halakha, you have no arguments at all.

Josephus says that the Sadducess followed the Pharisee decisions in all 

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   |        \/ /  \/ /       |     Moshe Shulman       |
   |        / /\__/_/\       | mshulman@ix.netcom.com  |
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