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Re: Josephus & DSS

Thomas M.Simms wrote:
> On Fri, 20 Sep 1996 10:39:42 -0600, jpman@accesscomm.net writes:
> >
> >  Yes. The Therapeutae were the Egyptian successors to the Asayyim in
> >the Holy Land.  They lived by the Mareotic Lake in Egypt and were discussed
> >and admired by Philo (Contemplative Life).  I believe there was a very close
> >relationship between the Netzarim and the Asayyim of Jerusalem...if not a
> >"merger."  The same holds true, I believe, for the Therapeutae which may
> >heve been the source for the gnostic sects.  I do not believe it is a
> >coincidence that Yaqub ben-Yosef, as the first Pakiyd of the Netzarim..was
> >called "ha-Tsedik."
>    Would you be kind enough to translate "ha-Tsedik" and "Pakiyd" for this
>    lurker?

	..that Yaqub ben-Yosef (James, the brother of Jesus), as the first
"overseer" of the Nazarene Jews..was called "The Righteous."
> >Shelama `amkhon   (also this phrase.  "Shelama" reminds me of the Egyptian
> "Sharema" and makes me look a second time at the second word using "Khenu")

	Aramaic for "Peace unto you"

>    I followed Philo's notice and took the men in white from the Gospels to be
>    be Therapeuts.  I also took the notice of the projiobition of "puffer" fish
>    and the VIth dynasty illustration of them to suggest the possibility of the
>    use of tetrodotoxins at the crucifixion.  Since then I have been acquainted
>    with Dana Beal's work on Ibogaine and take "haoma", the Zoroastrian fire
>    altar drug, to be another possible candidate.  The evidence of Jesus'
>    spending time not just in Egypt but farther east begs for consideration.

	Other than the "event of faith" it is futile to speculate on the historical
context of the "resurrection."  Could the men in white have been Essenes?  Maybe.
How would you leap from the sensible prohibition against Puffer fish (actually,
most of the laws of Kosher are based on good health sense) to the use of tetro-
dotoxin at the crucifixion?  Apparently you subscribe to the notion that Jesus
survived the crucifixion and I guess that is possible but Romans were experts
at execution.  Six hours is a very short time for death by crucifixion but the
application of the crurifragium on the other two guys and the lance in Jesus chest
should have been pretty effective.  I think musings over fugutoxin and obogaine
pushes the envelope.

>                   TO PENTECOST AND BEYOND IN
>                         CENTURY 21
>      (Some of this data is over twenty years old now...)
>                Excerpted from "Behind The Bible"
>    Among the Jews of Alexandria existed a sect of Essenes called
> Therapeuts.  Members of this Sect dressed solely in white linen,
> a hard-to-come-by cloth in those days.  They had a formidable
> reputation for healing.
>    Throughout the Middle East, the Egyptians had a reputation for
> medical care beyond anything the Greeks practiced.  Accounts from
> other than the Greeks tell us that.  Surviving papyri show an
> expertise equal to Nineteenth Century medicine.

	I am familiar with Egyptian medical papyri, ie the Smith Papyrus,
and I wouldn't go that far.

>  Yet they relied
> on spells.  This makes us smile at their bedside manners.
>    The ancient physicians decided carefully if they would contend
> with an illness or not.  If they decided not to contend, they
> turned to spells.
>    Our understanding of the drugs they used suggests they had a
> wide range of powerful herbal, plant and natural remedies.  They
> seemed quite certain of the effects, although the modern names of
> the substances mostly have escaped us.
>    We know they understood the effects of opium and the salicyl-
> ates.  Some magical papyri make us think they had drugs equival-
> ent in effect to the poisonous Fugu or puffer fish.  People in
> Japan or in the Caribbean knew of this fish.  That species is
> pantropical and known to the Red Sea.  It even appears on the
> walls of an Old Kingdom tomb.
>    The prohibition in the Old Testament against eating fish
> without scales tells us the ancients knew precisely what the
> flesh of the puffer fish could do.
>    The poison, a tetrodotoxin, gives an uncanny similitude to
> death.

	Fugutoxin is extremely lethal with a very low LD.  Even
a very crude tissue extract as would be made in the 1st century,
would give an "uncanny similitude to death" that would last till
judgement day.

>  It would be a powerful weapon in the hands of a Nabi.
> His healings would gain him a wonderful reputation.  Such effects
> might explain the Centurion's daughter or the raising of Lazarus.
> The Therapeuts of Alexandria or of Heliopolis might well have had
> such information.  (Heliopolis, where they still revere "The
> Virgin's Tree", is near the site of the exiled priest Onias'
> Temple.)  The only question this train of thinking raises is why
> we do not hear more about such poison experiences from other
> sources.

	"The Virgin's Tree" arises from a legend that Joseph, Mary and
the infant Jesus spent their Egyptian exile at the Garden of Mataria.
According to the legend, Mary once hid from a Roman pursuer in the hollow
of an ancient sycamore, the infant in her arms.  A spider wove a thick web
which hid them from the Roman.
>                                      *  *  *
>   (Historians do not consider any activities in the past or present
> as miracles or supernatural events.  Such questions, as in science,
> are outside their inquiries.  On one hand, they take into con-
> sideration people seeing events as miracles.  On the other hand,
> they look for natural explanations of events no matter how bizarre.
>   Most scholars make no decision about the nature of the Cruci-
> fixion of Jesus and His time in the tomb.  As discussed already,
> the record does not clearly show He died on the cross.  Likewise,
> as we'll see, the record does not clearly show He rose from the
> dead.  However, the record shows He went to the cross alive.  Then,
> the record shows He appeared to His followers alive from an empty
> tomb.  What happened physically in the tomb, the Shroud of Turin
> can tell us.

	Although I believe the Shroud of Turin is a genuine 1st century
artifact (for scientific reasons), I would guess that "shroud talk" has
occurred on the list ad nauseum.  For the benefit of the listusers,
I will refrain.

> explanation.
>   The pre-testing dating supports this simple explanation.  The
> dating test methodology as used has enough holes in it that another
> and better test will have to be done.  Until then, the cloth can
> only continue to remind us of what may really have happened in the
> spring of 36 A.D

	What happened in the spring of 36?

Jack Kilmon