[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

Re: question

---------------Original Message---------------
 Am I mistaken or is
>Herodotus' usage of Suria ey Palaistiney a rather weak basis for regarding
>Palestine the name of Israel?

>Yirmiyahu Ben-David, Pakiyd 16
>K'hiylat Ha-N'tzarim
>(World-wide Congregation of Nazarene Jews)
>
I think the point is being missed. Palestine and Israel do not refer to the
same area.
******

Here I think we agree, Philistia vs. Israel as opposed to an earlier 
K'na'an.


*****
As I said before, Israel is the name of a state only since 1948
(unless you go back to 722 BCE).
*****

Since we have existed as a people continuously during this period, from long 

before BCE 722, we do go back.


******
Palestine is the long-estabpished name of the territory.
******

"The territory" again becomes the problem.  If you speak of Philistia, ok.  
If you speak of what was known as Israel then it's an error.


*****
Equally, of course, Palestine is not a state either. Now, there IS a state 
of Israel and citizens of it can call themselves Israelis. But this Israel 
is not Palestine; it occupies part of palestine.
*****

Not equally, Palestine, in the area that was known as Israel, has never been 

a state.


*****
After all, if Israel = Palestine. then Israelis are Palestinians and 
Palestinians are Israelis. Neiter side seems to want that, though.
*****

There's more truth to that than you might imagine.  Today's Arabs, who have 
no link *as a people* whatsoever to the ancient Aegaen Philistines, refused 
to be called Palestinians until quite recently and, in fact, it was the Jews 

who were called Palestinians.  Please see recent article by David Bar-Ilan, 
Eye on the Media, in the Jerusalem Post on this subject.


*****
Sorry to be political on what is an academic list, but I did not start
this. I think that the argument over 'Israel' vs 'Palestine' as a name is
political, and nothing else. Perhaps we can all recognize that and drop the
subject?

Philip R Davies
Department of Biblical Studies
University of Sheffield
*****

I don't fault you for touching on something that is political.  The way to 
drop something, however, is not to say "I'm right, I hope we can all 
recognize that, now let's drop it."  This issue bears directly upon one's 
understanding of the DSS: are we to perceive the DSS as a product of 
Roman-Palestinian (Arabs?) or of the Jews (Israel)?  The politics cannot 
always be avoided.  After all, none less than Dr. Hanan Asrawi claims that 
it is Arabs, not Jews, who are the genealogical descendants of Christ  
According to her, then, Christ was a Palestinian Arab, not a Jew.  I've 
personally spoken with many Arab Christians and can assure you that hers is 
*not* as isolated belief.  Yet, until a few decades ago, Arabs -- correctly 
-- vehemently rejected any notion that they were Palestinians (again see 
Bar-Ilan article), and it was Jews who were called Palestinians.  Since the 
evidence for Jews in Israel was overwhelming, the latter didn't "stick."  
Moreover, the ancient Palestinians (Philistines) were Aegean immigrants, 
*not* Arabs.  The ancient Palestiniains were driven into surrounding lands 
and absorbed by both Arabs and Jews.  Like the 10 Lost Tribes, they were 
thereafter no longer discernible *as a people* and there is no further 
record of *those* Palestinians *as a people*.  The modern Arab claim to 
being Palestinians is based on their several centuries of occupation of this 
area following the advent of Roman Palestine, i.e., since the 6th century 
CE.  Since there is *no connection* between the modern Arab "Palestinians" 
and the ancient Aegaean Palestinians (Philistines), so we should be able to 
avoid any connection between the ancient considerations and the modern 
politics.

For us to drop the matter, instead of simply asserting "I'm right now let's 
drop it," I suggest conscientious readers who wish to be informed obtain the 

more detailed info in the Bar-Ilan article in the Jerusalem Post, consider 
it along with everything else that has been said, and everyone draw their 
own conclusions.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Yirmiyahu Ben-David, Pakiyd 16
K'hiylat Ha-N'tzarim
(World-wide Congregation of Nazarene Jews)

N'tzarim Virtual Community Center in
Ra'anana, Israel at
www.netvision.net.il/~netzarim
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *